(Araucaria) RES: Fwd: [CQ-Contest] Why some Caribbean Islands compete asSouth America at CQWW and other contests

Segunda Novembro 9 23:57:28 BRST 2015

ampliando um pouco....

somente CQWW SSB
2011 - CR3A 1 COL M1D4C  2 COL M1CN3A 3 COL M1
PW7T 1 COL M2PJ4T 2 COL M2IR4X 3 COL M2
C5A  1 COL MMK3LR 2 COL MMDR1A 3 COL MM
2012D4C  1 COL M1CR3A 2 COL M1P33W 3 COL M1
PJ4X 1 COL M2CN3A 2 COL M2VE3EJ3 COL M2
C5A  1 COL MMHK1NA2 COL MMK3LR 3 COL MM
2013 - CN2AA 1 COL M1CR3A  2 COL M1P33W  3 COL M1
CN3A  1 COL M2UP2L  2 COL M2KC1XX 3 COL M2
D4C   1 COL MMHK1NA 2 COL MMES9C  3 COL MM
2014 - CN2AA 1 COL M1P33W  2 COL M1CN2R  3 COL M1
CN3A  1 COL M2PJ4X  2 COL M2TM6M  3 COL M2
HK1NA 1 COL MMK3LR  2 COL MMII9P  3 COL MM
CONCLUINDO NOS ULTIMOS 4 ANOS
2011ESTAÇOES EM iLHAS - 3ESTAÇOES EM CONTINENTES - 6
2012ESTAÇOES EM iLHAS - 4ESTAÇOES EM CONTINENTES - 5
2013ESTAÇOES EM iLHAS - 3ESTAÇOES EM CONTINENTES - 6
2014ESTAÇOES EM iLHAS - 3ESTAÇOES EM CONTINENTES - 6
Creio que o problema não está nas Ilhas ou nos países mais procurados, vejam que tem estações como Jumanji, K3LR, e a propria PW7T aparecem com frequência nos resultados, todos em um meridiano próximo ao equador?
K3LR, KC1XX, DR1A, ES9C e UP2L não estão tão perto do Great circle.
Tive a oportunidade de operar do Haiti no Caribe em contestes ARRL DX, SSB e CW e o WPX dedicado foi somente o ARRL DX SSB e pue experimentar a magia do mar do Caribe para contestes, realmente é fantástica a localização porém não da para tirar leite de pedra de lá sem um bom operador e uma boa estação.
Acho na minha vista muito vago atrelar o resultado das estações fantásticas como D4C, PJ2T CN3A e R ou ainda P33W somente a boa localização.
As regras são para todos, cada um corre com o que tem de melhor evolui com suas armas para compensar o que os adversários tem de melhor...

é o que vejo..
73's  FÁBIO
PY1ZV
"É Melhor morrer por alguma coisa do que viver por nada"(Anderson Silva - Lutador UFC)

RIO DX GROUP TEAM // PR1T TEAM \\ARAUCÁRIA MEMBER

      De: py5eg <py5eg em iesa.com.br>
 Para: Araucaria DX Group <araucaria em araucariadx.com>; RIO-DX-GROUP em yahoogrupos.com.br 
Cc: pp5jr em terra.com.br 
 Enviadas: Segunda-feira, 9 de Novembro de 2015 17:24
 Assunto: (Araucaria) RES: Fwd: [CQ-Contest] Why some Caribbean Islands compete asSouth America at CQWW and other contests

#yiv8466308609 #yiv8466308609 -- _filtered #yiv8466308609 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv8466308609 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv8466308609 {font-family:Tahoma;panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;}#yiv8466308609 #yiv8466308609 p.yiv8466308609MsoNormal, #yiv8466308609 li.yiv8466308609MsoNormal, #yiv8466308609 div.yiv8466308609MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:12.0pt;}#yiv8466308609 a:link, #yiv8466308609 span.yiv8466308609MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8466308609 a:visited, #yiv8466308609 span.yiv8466308609MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:purple;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv8466308609 p.yiv8466308609MsoAcetate, #yiv8466308609 li.yiv8466308609MsoAcetate, #yiv8466308609 div.yiv8466308609MsoAcetate {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:8.0pt;}#yiv8466308609 span.yiv8466308609EstiloDeEmail17 {color:#1F497D;}#yiv8466308609 span.yiv8466308609TextodebaloChar {}#yiv8466308609 .yiv8466308609MsoChpDefault {font-size:10.0pt;} _filtered #yiv8466308609 {margin:70.85pt 3.0cm 70.85pt 3.0cm;}#yiv8466308609 div.yiv8466308609Section1 {}#yiv8466308609 Ola Fernando e pessoal Realmente competir do Continente S.America com as ilhas e mesmooutros países únicos é quase impossível todas as bandas. No CQWW como Multi somente 2 X  ZX0F e ZW5B Vice e PW7T M/2 Muitos campeonatos mundiais SOSB 10, 15 e 20  e records de zonas40 metros PT5T Fiz um apanhado somente SSB para ter uma visão geral       M/S 
|  |  1996 ZX0F  |             MULTI-ONE  |  20,167,146   |  8,120   |  171   |  678   |  -   |  PY5EG PY5CC N5FA PY0...  |

|    1997  ZX0F  |  1997  |  MULTI-ONE  |  19,653,570   |  8,563   |  169   |  661   |  -   |  N6KT N5FA ZP5JCY  |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
|  |  ZW5B  |  1989 VICE  |  MULTI-MULTI  |  35,830,544   |  13,644   |  189   |  710   |  -   |  N5FA N6AA N6TJ N6VI ...  |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |

2011  
|  PW7T  |  MULTI-TWO  |  25,405,952   |  10,833   |  178   |  654   |  48.0  |  PY3VK PT7CB PT7CG PT...  |

      No WPX temos os seguintes  campeonatos mundiais Notar que do Continente somente  ZZ5EG 1987  ZX5C 1989 e PT0F2000 os outros foram de F.Noronha Temos vários campeonatos mundiais SOSB    
|   2001 ZX5J   |  MULTI-MULTI  |  46,550,452  |  10,039  |  1,508  |  48.0  |  PP5JR PY5EG PP5W...  |  |
|  1987 ZZ5EG  |  MULTI-MULTI  |  38,096,250  |  9,510  |  1,250  |  -   |  PY5EG PY5CA N5FA...  |     |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
|  ZX0F  |  2001  |  MULTI-ONE HP  |  31,700,536  |        7,475  |  1,318  |  42.9  |  PY5CC PY0FF N5FA...  |     |  |
|  ZX0F  |  1993  |  MULTI-ONE HP  |    vice     31,059,544  |  8,629  |  1,096  |  -   |  PY5EG PY5CC N5FA..  |  |  |  |  |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |

|  ZX0F  |  1994  |  MULTI-ONE HP  |  27,883,050  |  7,447  |  1,086  |  -   |  PY5EG PY5CC PY5A...  |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |
|  ZX0F  |  1999  |  MULTI-ONE HP  |  27,446,570  |  7,138  |  1,135  |  |  PY5EG PY5CC N5FA...  |  |
|  ZX0F  |  1997  |  MULTI-ONE HP  |  25,497,504  |  6,193  |  1,093  |  -   |  PY5EG N5FA PY0FF...  |  |  |  |
|  ZX0F  |  1996  |  MULTI-ONE HP  |  23,896,640  |  6,123  |  1,060  |  -   |  PY5EG N5FA PY5CC...  |  |  |  |
|  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |  |

|  ZX5C  |  1989  |  MULTI-ONE HP  |  22,400,980  |  6,903  |  1,060  |  -   |  PY5EG PY5ZBA PY5...  |
|  PT0F  |  2000  |  MULTI-ONE HP  |  21,776,546  |  6,047  |  1,121  |  -   |  PY5CC N5FA PY0FF  |

   Pode ter escapado alguma outra conquista Um abraço Atilano          

De:araucaria-bounces em araucariadx.com [mailto:araucaria-bounces em araucariadx.com] Emnome de Fernando PY2LED
Enviada em: segunda-feira, 9 de novembro de 2015 14:41
Para: Araucaria DX Group; RIO-DX-GROUP em yahoogrupos.com.br
Cc: pp5jr em terra.com.br
Assunto: (Araucaria) Fwd: [CQ-Contest] Why some Caribbean Islandscompete asSouth America at CQWW and other contests    Olá pessoal, boa tarde!    Ainda não satisfeito com as respostas obtidas no envio daprimeira mensagem, preparei mais uma e enviei ontem a tarde com dados do ultimocqwwssb, trazendo assim mais elementos para retratar o cenário e por enquantotivemos apenas uma resposta.    De fato com o regulamento atual, maiores chances terãoaqueles que estiverem no "Golden Circle" intitulado pelo amigo Ed,N1UR.    Como Atilano disse, esta proposta ja foi votada e foiderrotada. Não sei quando ocorreu pela ultima vez e quando podemos bater natecla novamente.    O CQWW e o WPX sao únicos e não creio que a justificativa deapenas se divertir sabendo que jamais o vencerá nas categorias Multi e olharpara os demais contestes justifica a desvantagem.    O que acham?     Sergio,  como você vê a questão, pois ja venceu variasvezes no SOSB em 10m e 15m, porem no Multi  Single, Multi-Two ouMulti-Multi não temos nada, correto?     73's e boa semana a todos.  

 Fernando Cordoba | PY2LED | PX2B
Sao Caetano do Sul | SP | Brasil
GG66rj
py2led em fuertesind.com.br
www.altodaserradx.com.br 
Início da mensagem encaminhada    
De: "Ed Sawyer" <sawyered em earthlink.net>
Data: 9 de novembro de 2015 12:09:08 BRST
Para: <cq-contest em contesting.com>
Assunto: Re: [CQ-Contest] Why some Caribean Islands compete asSouth America
Responder A: sawyered em earthlink.net

Fernando,

Nice analysis and yes, I think most of us would agree to your conclusions.
All else being equal for operators and stations, the "golden circle"of
Northern Africa and Extreme Northern South America will always win CQ WW and
CQ WPX.  Even if the 3 points were changed to 2 points, propagation alone
would likely have these same stations win.

But that is not the way to look at contesting.  Look for ALL contestswhere
its fun.  Where does South America have an advantage?  ARRL DX andARRL 10
come to mind.  Look to win the continental contests from South America as
well.

I have no chance of winning the world from W1 any more than you do from PY.
But that doesn't prevent us from really enjoying contesting and trying to
win the US when I can.

And don't think we can win the US for W1 in every contest.  Take a look at
the top 10 in this weekend's SS contest in any category.  Look at NAQP as
well.  Every location has its spot to shine.

This is the sport.  Its not to normalize every contest.  Its to knowwhich
contest you can win the world and which you can't.  Compete in all you can
have fun in and accept what is continental winnable and what is not.  Try
and win your country when you have a shot.

73

Ed  N1UR

_______________________________________________
CQ-Contest mailing list
CQ-Contest em contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest 

De: "PY2LED - Fernando" <py2led em fuertesind.com.br>
Data: 7 de novembro de 2015 22:09:12 BRST
Para: <CQ-Contest em contesting.com>
Assunto: [CQ-Contest] Why some Caribbean Islands compete as SouthAmerica at CQWW and other contests 

Dear Colleagues, Good day!

I really appreciate all messages sent, each individual point of view,
sharing opinions, suggestions all with education and fully respect. 

Join a contest like CQWW and CQWPX continues fine, exciting and I will
always try to participate.  Recently we constructed a contest station near
Sao Paulo and we knows very well what's the costs involved and the extras
when we are in islands etc. We are always looking for a plaque, this is our
target and probably from all of us.  What a pleasure when we look to the
wall on the near future and see a lot of plaques from main contests
worldwide. We are proud of that. 

But of course, in some categories, depending on your location and station
setup, before contest starts, you already know to reach that plaque will not
be possible. Here from Southeast part of Brazil, we know that is not
possible at Multi-Multi, Multi-Two, Multi-Single...we always will loose due
to our distance to the main ham population centers/countries like USA, EU,
Japan in the Low Bands. Ok, we will have our country and continental
competition what's fine. But how to become number one worldwide having the
best antennas, radios, amps, towers, cables, automation, operators etc?

To turn what I'm saying more easy to check and understand, let's please have
a look at the Claimed score from CQWWSSB at Multi Operators categories took
from 3830scores.com (where we can compare up to 5 stations):

Multi-Two:

Totals

160

80

40

20

15

10

Call

Edition

Class

Power

Score

QSOs

Zones

Countries

Q

Z

Cnt

Q

Z

Cnt

Q

Z

Cnt

Q

Z

Cnt

Q

Z

Cnt

Q

Z

Cnt

CN2R  

2015-Oct 24  

M/2  

HP

39,368,266

14202

187

744

250

10

49

1513

27

107

2100

35

122

2142

39

156

4162

38

154

4035

38

156

CN3A  

2015-Oct 24  

M/2  

HP

38,007,784

14152

176

725

62

8

45

908

21

94

2178

34

125

3123

38

150

3727

38

152

4154

37

159

PJ4Q  

2015-Oct 24  

M/2  

HP

24,770,768

11247

155

593

63

11

30

504

19

77

1561

28

110

2341

34

131

3323

32

121

3455

31

124

C4A  

2015-Oct 24  

M/2  

HP

21,237,810

8903

166

668

99

8

44

493

15

72

1414

32

114

2087

37

147

2235

38

136

2574

36

155

PX2A  

2015-Oct 24  

M/2  

HP

18,302,109

8847

157

550

0

0

0

45

14

27

425

29

92

1939

37

144

2777

39

141

3661

38

146

Multi-Multi:

Totals

160

80

40

20

15

10

Call

Edition

Class

Power

Score

QSOs

Zones

Countries

Q

Z

Cnt

Q

Z

Cnt

Q

Z

Cnt

Q

Z

Cnt

Q

Z

Cnt

Q

Z

Cnt

CN2AA  

2015-Oct 24  

M/M  

HP

74,585,700

23815

207

843

894

21

85

2324

31

117

3597

37

142

5814

39

164

5656

39

169

5530

40

166

HK1NA  

2015-Oct 24  

M/M  

HP

33,727,337

13867

176

657

282

16

54

629

21

80

2029

33

121

3489

37

143

3347

36

135

4030

33

124

K3LR  

2015-Oct 24  

M/M  

HP

32,520,150

12593

195

786

468

19

61

859

27

99

2375

36

137

3377

39

174

3222

40

168

2293

34

147

PJ2T  

2015-Oct 24  

M/M  

HP

29,789,720

13433

165

595

183

14

27

662

70

26

1928

30

107

2900

37

136

3899

34

127

3861

30

122

ZW5B(@PY5EG)  

2015-Oct 24  

M/M  

HP

23,497,290

9972

177

633

4

3

3

127

19

40

914

38

125

2225

39

152

2826

39

158

3876

39

155

Multi-Single HP:

Totals

160

80

40

20

15

10

Call

Edition

Class

Power

Score

QSOs

Zones

Countries

Q

Z

Cnt

Q

Z

Cnt

Q

Z

Cnt

Q

Z

Cnt

Q

Z

Cnt

Q

Z

Cnt

EF8R  

2015-Oct 24  

M/S  

HP

33,168,016

11973

183

749

88

11

54

642

21

93

1655

37

126

2433

38

156

2205

38

156

4950

38

164

CR3A  

2015-Oct 24  

M/S  

HP

28,153,224

10468

183

719

97

13

56

658

24

96

874

34

116

2404

38

147

2205

37

149

4230

37

155

P33W  

2015-Oct 24  

M/S  

HP

27,119,096

10267

182

734

188

11

60

468

20

86

1276

36

126

2670

38

154

2328

40

153

3337

37

155

PJ4X(@PJ4G)  

2015-Oct 24  

M/S  

HP

19,354,856

8334

168

620

12

4

11

533

25

87

941

30

112

1697

37

135

2169

38

139

2982

34

136

LT1F  

2015-Oct 24  

M/S  

HP

11,336,365

5771

158

519

4

3

4

20

11

19

532

33

102

1164

37

125

960

38

132

3091

36

137

Multi-Single LP:

Totals

160

80

40

20

15

10

Call

Edition

Class

Power

Score

QSOs

Zones

Countries

Q

Z

Cnt

Q

Z

Cnt

Q

Z

Cnt

Q

Z

Cnt

Q

Z

Cnt

Q

Z

Cnt

FY5KE  

2015-Oct 24  

M/S  

LP

14,427,004

6817

159

563

3

3

3

200

19

58

516

29

107

1835

36

136

1523

36

128

2740

36

131

VP9I(@VP9GE)  

2015-Oct 24  

M/S  

LP

7,018,557

4771

135

476

187

7

10

504

15

61

1119

25

93

1192

32

114

1230

31

105

539

25

93

EF7X(@EA7PP)  

2015-Oct 24  

M/S  

LP

5,684,625

3582

152

623

49

9

49

87

15

75

523

23

99

900

37

131

1012

36

131

1011

32

136

KP4BD  

2015-Oct 24  

M/S  

LP

5,138,128

3856

131

437

13

3

11

116

13

49

346

21

70

784

33

115

1655

32

102

942

29

90

PR1T(@PY1NB)  

2015-Oct 24  

M/S  

LP

4,129,990

2787

118

396

2

2

2

3

2

3

112

25

77

550

32

108

801

30

102

1318

27

104

After to compare all this numbers, based in the Southeast of South America,
I arrived on the following points:

-          Ocean Islands andcountries at EU and USA boundaries dominated
this categories;

-          Qsos/points from theSouth of South America, South of Africa and
etc from lower latitudes on the higher bands like 10m and 15m sometimes
arrives near qso/points amounts from the Winners BUT the qsos/points at
lower bands starting sometimes on 20m but mainly on 40m, 80m and 160m is
impossible to arrive closer. There is an abysm of difference.  Here wehave
a question of propagation mixed with distances, right? If yes, why not to
suggest and/or propose new rules considering this issue?

-          Stations located in theboundaries of the main ham population
centers/countries like Caribbean Islands, Mediterranean islands and
countries located in the north of South America, North of Africa and other
similar areas looking to the North of the world will also do a lot more on
40/80/160 meters AND ALSO will do a lot on the high bands, counting 3
points/qso.  

-          If you are able toconstruct a super contest station in a rare
and excellent DX location (inland or offshore) with excellent openings
during the whole 24 hours to EU and NA (this should be nice), probably will
be on the top. But and all other stations under different conditions? Will
compete on this category the whole life without chances? 

-          So the conclusion hereis that stations located far way from the
main ham population centers/countries (outside this continents) at higher
and lower latitudes normally do very small and limited amount of
qsos/countries/zones in 40m, 80m and 160m  that is NOT compensated by farin
10m, 15m and 20m.

One possible solution could be to create a new category called"Islands" and
separate it per continent.  We will have Islands Winners per Continentsand
also an World Islands Rank. One problem solved! 

The second situation, regarding this countries inland, located on the
boundaries of EU or NA (North of South America/North of Africa/etc)...we
should think in one way to balance the monsters/unbeatable scores.  If we
don't do nothing to balance, competition will be always boring for the rest
of the world. Let's do barbecue, beer and have fun.  

Thanks again for sharing ideas and taking your time with this issue, but
it's very important. 

Hope to listen all of you during the next contests and some DX calls. 

Have a nice weekend.

73's

Fernando F. R. Cordoba - PY2LED

Alto da Serra Contest Station

PX2A - PX2B

<mailto:py2led em fuertesind.com.br> py2led em fuertesind.com.br

<http://www.altodaserradx.com/> www.altodaserradx.com

2015-11-05 2:21 GMT+03:00 Fernando PY2LED <py2led em fuertesind.com.br>:

Hello Dear Contesters, good day!

I was analyzing results from CQWW, CQWPX and in some categories we can see
some nice records made by stations located in the Caribean Islands. Some of
this islands counts like South America.

It is extremelly difficult or impossible to beat their scores from South of
Brazil, Argentina, Uruguai, Paraguai and other south countries due to the
big distances to the main countries lime USA and some European countries.
Also during the main contests, we have only one station (one multiplier) in
some of this islands like Bonaire, Aruba etc and everybody will try the qso.

I would like to understand if's there an explanation or criteria why they
are located in South America for this contests. When we go to some Geography
books, some autors gives reason why they don't include such islands at South
America and they do like Caribean islands.

Maybe this example applies to other parts of the world.  Why not to create
an Islands Category or Central America or so?

Would like to share and listen opinions about this issue.

Many thanks and best 73's

 Fernando Cordoba | PY2LED | PX2B 
Sao Caetano do Sul | SP | Brasil 

GG66rj 

py2led em fuertesind.com.br 

www.altodaserradx.com.br 
_______________________________________________
CQ-Contest mailing list
CQ-Contest em contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest

_______________________________________________
CQ-Contest mailing list
CQ-Contest em contesting.com
http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest 

_______________________________________________
Araucaria mailing list
Araucaria em araucariadx.com
http://list.araucariadx.com/mailman/listinfo/araucaria

-------------- Próxima Parte ----------
Um anexo em HTML foi limpo...
URL: <http://list.araucariadx.com/pipermail/araucaria/attachments/20151110/a3bf4412/attachment.html>