(Araucaria) Fwd: [CQ-Contest] Why some Caribbean Islands compete as South America at CQWW and other contests

Segunda Novembro 9 16:18:35 BRST 2015

Amigos,
Infelizmente, there will always be a Golden Border-Circle, also if borders
are changed.

I myself have experienced some bad places.
HZ1AB with long solid openings and Runs to JA but ONLY 1 pointers as on
the same continent. Asia is VERY long in East-West direction.
9M2CX, Japan on the side of the paths both to EU and US, It was quite
difficult to get through beyond them.

IMHO, Brasil is a heaven for Contesting compared to doing it from within EU
where there are so many strong stations making QRM for each other and
quickly fills up the bands.

North Brasil is a very good place to be, from HZ1AB I always heard HC8N
together with North Brazilian stations.

But Contesting is fun.... whatever.

73,
Thomas PY2ZXU/SM0CXU

On Mon, Nov 9, 2015 at 2:41 PM, Fernando PY2LED <py2led em fuertesind.com.br>
wrote:

> Olá pessoal, boa tarde!
>
> Ainda não satisfeito com as respostas obtidas no envio da primeira
> mensagem, preparei mais uma e enviei ontem a tarde com dados do ultimo
> cqwwssb, trazendo assim mais elementos para retratar o cenário e por
> enquanto tivemos apenas uma resposta.
>
> De fato com o regulamento atual, maiores chances terão aqueles que
> estiverem no "Golden Circle" intitulado pelo amigo Ed, N1UR.
>
> Como Atilano disse, esta proposta ja foi votada e foi derrotada. Não sei
> quando ocorreu pela ultima vez e quando podemos bater na tecla novamente.
>
> O CQWW e o WPX sao únicos e não creio que a justificativa de apenas se
> divertir sabendo que jamais o vencerá nas categorias Multi e olhar para os
> demais contestes justifica a desvantagem.
>
> O que acham?
>
> Sergio,  como você vê a questão, pois ja venceu varias vezes no SOSB em
> 10m e 15m, porem no Multi  Single, Multi-Two ou Multi-Multi não temos nada,
> correto?
>
> 73's e boa semana a todos.
>
>
> Fernando Cordoba | PY2LED | PX2B
> Sao Caetano do Sul | SP | Brasil
> GG66rj
> py2led em fuertesind.com.br
> www.altodaserradx.com.br
>
>
> Início da mensagem encaminhada
>
> *De:* "Ed Sawyer" <sawyered em earthlink.net>
> *Data:* 9 de novembro de 2015 12:09:08 BRST
> *Para:* <cq-contest em contesting.com>
> *Assunto:* *Re: [CQ-Contest] Why some Caribean Islands compete as South
> America*
> *Responder A:* sawyered em earthlink.net
>
>
>
> Fernando,
>
>
>
> Nice analysis and yes, I think most of us would agree to your conclusions.
> All else being equal for operators and stations, the "golden circle" of
> Northern Africa and Extreme Northern South America will always win CQ WW
> and
> CQ WPX.  Even if the 3 points were changed to 2 points, propagation alone
> would likely have these same stations win.
>
>
>
> But that is not the way to look at contesting.  Look for ALL contests where
> its fun.  Where does South America have an advantage?  ARRL DX and ARRL 10
> come to mind.  Look to win the continental contests from South America as
> well.
>
>
>
> I have no chance of winning the world from W1 any more than you do from PY.
> But that doesn't prevent us from really enjoying contesting and trying to
> win the US when I can.
>
>
>
> And don't think we can win the US for W1 in every contest.  Take a look at
> the top 10 in this weekend's SS contest in any category.  Look at NAQP as
> well.  Every location has its spot to shine.
>
>
>
> This is the sport.  Its not to normalize every contest.  Its to know which
> contest you can win the world and which you can't.  Compete in all you can
> have fun in and accept what is continental winnable and what is not.  Try
> and win your country when you have a shot.
>
>
>
> 73
>
>
>
> Ed  N1UR
>
> _______________________________________________
> CQ-Contest mailing list
> CQ-Contest em contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest
>
>
>
> *De:* "PY2LED - Fernando" <py2led em fuertesind.com.br>
> *Data:* 7 de novembro de 2015 22:09:12 BRST
> *Para:* <CQ-Contest em contesting.com>
> *Assunto:* *[CQ-Contest] Why some Caribbean Islands compete as South
> America at CQWW and other contests*
>
> Dear Colleagues, Good day!
>
>
>
> I really appreciate all messages sent, each individual point of view,
> sharing opinions, suggestions all with education and fully respect.
>
>
>
> Join a contest like CQWW and CQWPX continues fine, exciting and I will
> always try to participate.  Recently we constructed a contest station near
> Sao Paulo and we knows very well what's the costs involved and the extras
> when we are in islands etc. We are always looking for a plaque, this is our
> target and probably from all of us.  What a pleasure when we look to the
> wall on the near future and see a lot of plaques from main contests
> worldwide. We are proud of that.
>
>
>
> But of course, in some categories, depending on your location and station
> setup, before contest starts, you already know to reach that plaque will
> not
> be possible. Here from Southeast part of Brazil, we know that is not
> possible at Multi-Multi, Multi-Two, Multi-Single...we always will loose due
> to our distance to the main ham population centers/countries like USA, EU,
> Japan in the Low Bands. Ok, we will have our country and continental
> competition what's fine. But how to become number one worldwide having the
> best antennas, radios, amps, towers, cables, automation, operators etc?
>
>
>
> To turn what I'm saying more easy to check and understand, let's please
> have
> a look at the Claimed score from CQWWSSB at Multi Operators categories took
> from 3830scores.com (where we can compare up to 5 stations):
>
>
>
> Multi-Two:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Totals
>
> 160
>
> 80
>
> 40
>
> 20
>
> 15
>
> 10
>
>
> Call
>
> Edition
>
> Class
>
> Power
>
> Score
>
> QSOs
>
> Zones
>
> Countries
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
>
> CN2R
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/2
>
> HP
>
> 39,368,266
>
> 14202
>
> 187
>
> 744
>
> 250
>
> 10
>
> 49
>
> 1513
>
> 27
>
> 107
>
> 2100
>
> 35
>
> 122
>
> 2142
>
> 39
>
> 156
>
> 4162
>
> 38
>
> 154
>
> 4035
>
> 38
>
> 156
>
>
> CN3A
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/2
>
> HP
>
> 38,007,784
>
> 14152
>
> 176
>
> 725
>
> 62
>
> 8
>
> 45
>
> 908
>
> 21
>
> 94
>
> 2178
>
> 34
>
> 125
>
> 3123
>
> 38
>
> 150
>
> 3727
>
> 38
>
> 152
>
> 4154
>
> 37
>
> 159
>
>
> PJ4Q
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/2
>
> HP
>
> 24,770,768
>
> 11247
>
> 155
>
> 593
>
> 63
>
> 11
>
> 30
>
> 504
>
> 19
>
> 77
>
> 1561
>
> 28
>
> 110
>
> 2341
>
> 34
>
> 131
>
> 3323
>
> 32
>
> 121
>
> 3455
>
> 31
>
> 124
>
>
> C4A
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/2
>
> HP
>
> 21,237,810
>
> 8903
>
> 166
>
> 668
>
> 99
>
> 8
>
> 44
>
> 493
>
> 15
>
> 72
>
> 1414
>
> 32
>
> 114
>
> 2087
>
> 37
>
> 147
>
> 2235
>
> 38
>
> 136
>
> 2574
>
> 36
>
> 155
>
>
> PX2A
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/2
>
> HP
>
> 18,302,109
>
> 8847
>
> 157
>
> 550
>
> 0
>
> 0
>
> 0
>
> 45
>
> 14
>
> 27
>
> 425
>
> 29
>
> 92
>
> 1939
>
> 37
>
> 144
>
> 2777
>
> 39
>
> 141
>
> 3661
>
> 38
>
> 146
>
>
>
>
>
> Multi-Multi:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Totals
>
> 160
>
> 80
>
> 40
>
> 20
>
> 15
>
> 10
>
>
> Call
>
> Edition
>
> Class
>
> Power
>
> Score
>
> QSOs
>
> Zones
>
> Countries
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
>
> CN2AA
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/M
>
> HP
>
> 74,585,700
>
> 23815
>
> 207
>
> 843
>
> 894
>
> 21
>
> 85
>
> 2324
>
> 31
>
> 117
>
> 3597
>
> 37
>
> 142
>
> 5814
>
> 39
>
> 164
>
> 5656
>
> 39
>
> 169
>
> 5530
>
> 40
>
> 166
>
>
> HK1NA
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/M
>
> HP
>
> 33,727,337
>
> 13867
>
> 176
>
> 657
>
> 282
>
> 16
>
> 54
>
> 629
>
> 21
>
> 80
>
> 2029
>
> 33
>
> 121
>
> 3489
>
> 37
>
> 143
>
> 3347
>
> 36
>
> 135
>
> 4030
>
> 33
>
> 124
>
>
> K3LR
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/M
>
> HP
>
> 32,520,150
>
> 12593
>
> 195
>
> 786
>
> 468
>
> 19
>
> 61
>
> 859
>
> 27
>
> 99
>
> 2375
>
> 36
>
> 137
>
> 3377
>
> 39
>
> 174
>
> 3222
>
> 40
>
> 168
>
> 2293
>
> 34
>
> 147
>
>
> PJ2T
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/M
>
> HP
>
> 29,789,720
>
> 13433
>
> 165
>
> 595
>
> 183
>
> 14
>
> 27
>
> 662
>
> 70
>
> 26
>
> 1928
>
> 30
>
> 107
>
> 2900
>
> 37
>
> 136
>
> 3899
>
> 34
>
> 127
>
> 3861
>
> 30
>
> 122
>
>
> ZW5B(@PY5EG)
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/M
>
> HP
>
> 23,497,290
>
> 9972
>
> 177
>
> 633
>
> 4
>
> 3
>
> 3
>
> 127
>
> 19
>
> 40
>
> 914
>
> 38
>
> 125
>
> 2225
>
> 39
>
> 152
>
> 2826
>
> 39
>
> 158
>
> 3876
>
> 39
>
> 155
>
>
>
>
>
> Multi-Single HP:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Totals
>
> 160
>
> 80
>
> 40
>
> 20
>
> 15
>
> 10
>
>
> Call
>
> Edition
>
> Class
>
> Power
>
> Score
>
> QSOs
>
> Zones
>
> Countries
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
>
> EF8R
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/S
>
> HP
>
> 33,168,016
>
> 11973
>
> 183
>
> 749
>
> 88
>
> 11
>
> 54
>
> 642
>
> 21
>
> 93
>
> 1655
>
> 37
>
> 126
>
> 2433
>
> 38
>
> 156
>
> 2205
>
> 38
>
> 156
>
> 4950
>
> 38
>
> 164
>
>
> CR3A
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/S
>
> HP
>
> 28,153,224
>
> 10468
>
> 183
>
> 719
>
> 97
>
> 13
>
> 56
>
> 658
>
> 24
>
> 96
>
> 874
>
> 34
>
> 116
>
> 2404
>
> 38
>
> 147
>
> 2205
>
> 37
>
> 149
>
> 4230
>
> 37
>
> 155
>
>
> P33W
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/S
>
> HP
>
> 27,119,096
>
> 10267
>
> 182
>
> 734
>
> 188
>
> 11
>
> 60
>
> 468
>
> 20
>
> 86
>
> 1276
>
> 36
>
> 126
>
> 2670
>
> 38
>
> 154
>
> 2328
>
> 40
>
> 153
>
> 3337
>
> 37
>
> 155
>
>
> PJ4X(@PJ4G)
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/S
>
> HP
>
> 19,354,856
>
> 8334
>
> 168
>
> 620
>
> 12
>
> 4
>
> 11
>
> 533
>
> 25
>
> 87
>
> 941
>
> 30
>
> 112
>
> 1697
>
> 37
>
> 135
>
> 2169
>
> 38
>
> 139
>
> 2982
>
> 34
>
> 136
>
>
> LT1F
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/S
>
> HP
>
> 11,336,365
>
> 5771
>
> 158
>
> 519
>
> 4
>
> 3
>
> 4
>
> 20
>
> 11
>
> 19
>
> 532
>
> 33
>
> 102
>
> 1164
>
> 37
>
> 125
>
> 960
>
> 38
>
> 132
>
> 3091
>
> 36
>
> 137
>
>
>
> Multi-Single LP:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Totals
>
> 160
>
> 80
>
> 40
>
> 20
>
> 15
>
> 10
>
>
> Call
>
> Edition
>
> Class
>
> Power
>
> Score
>
> QSOs
>
> Zones
>
> Countries
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
> Q
>
> Z
>
> Cnt
>
>
> FY5KE
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/S
>
> LP
>
> 14,427,004
>
> 6817
>
> 159
>
> 563
>
> 3
>
> 3
>
> 3
>
> 200
>
> 19
>
> 58
>
> 516
>
> 29
>
> 107
>
> 1835
>
> 36
>
> 136
>
> 1523
>
> 36
>
> 128
>
> 2740
>
> 36
>
> 131
>
>
> VP9I(@VP9GE)
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/S
>
> LP
>
> 7,018,557
>
> 4771
>
> 135
>
> 476
>
> 187
>
> 7
>
> 10
>
> 504
>
> 15
>
> 61
>
> 1119
>
> 25
>
> 93
>
> 1192
>
> 32
>
> 114
>
> 1230
>
> 31
>
> 105
>
> 539
>
> 25
>
> 93
>
>
> EF7X(@EA7PP)
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/S
>
> LP
>
> 5,684,625
>
> 3582
>
> 152
>
> 623
>
> 49
>
> 9
>
> 49
>
> 87
>
> 15
>
> 75
>
> 523
>
> 23
>
> 99
>
> 900
>
> 37
>
> 131
>
> 1012
>
> 36
>
> 131
>
> 1011
>
> 32
>
> 136
>
>
> KP4BD
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/S
>
> LP
>
> 5,138,128
>
> 3856
>
> 131
>
> 437
>
> 13
>
> 3
>
> 11
>
> 116
>
> 13
>
> 49
>
> 346
>
> 21
>
> 70
>
> 784
>
> 33
>
> 115
>
> 1655
>
> 32
>
> 102
>
> 942
>
> 29
>
> 90
>
>
> PR1T(@PY1NB)
>
> 2015-Oct 24
>
> M/S
>
> LP
>
> 4,129,990
>
> 2787
>
> 118
>
> 396
>
> 2
>
> 2
>
> 2
>
> 3
>
> 2
>
> 3
>
> 112
>
> 25
>
> 77
>
> 550
>
> 32
>
> 108
>
> 801
>
> 30
>
> 102
>
> 1318
>
> 27
>
> 104
>
>
>
>
>
> After to compare all this numbers, based in the Southeast of South America,
> I arrived on the following points:
>
> -          Ocean Islands and countries at EU and USA boundaries dominated
> this categories;
>
>
>
> -          Qsos/points from the South of South America, South of Africa and
> etc from lower latitudes on the higher bands like 10m and 15m sometimes
> arrives near qso/points amounts from the Winners BUT the qsos/points at
> lower bands starting sometimes on 20m but mainly on 40m, 80m and 160m is
> impossible to arrive closer. There is an abysm of difference.  Here we have
> a question of propagation mixed with distances, right? If yes, why not to
> suggest and/or propose new rules considering this issue?
>
>
>
> -          Stations located in the boundaries of the main ham population
> centers/countries like Caribbean Islands, Mediterranean islands and
> countries located in the north of South America, North of Africa and other
> similar areas looking to the North of the world will also do a lot more on
> 40/80/160 meters AND ALSO will do a lot on the high bands, counting 3
> points/qso.
>
>
>
> -          If you are able to construct a super contest station in a rare
> and excellent DX location (inland or offshore) with excellent openings
> during the whole 24 hours to EU and NA (this should be nice), probably will
> be on the top. But and all other stations under different conditions? Will
> compete on this category the whole life without chances?
>
>
>
> -          So the conclusion here is that stations located far way from the
> main ham population centers/countries (outside this continents) at higher
> and lower latitudes normally do very small and limited amount of
> qsos/countries/zones in 40m, 80m and 160m  that is NOT compensated by far
> in
> 10m, 15m and 20m.
>
> One possible solution could be to create a new category called "Islands"
> and
> separate it per continent.  We will have Islands Winners per Continents and
> also an World Islands Rank. One problem solved!
>
>
>
> The second situation, regarding this countries inland, located on the
> boundaries of EU or NA (North of South America/North of Africa/etc)...we
> should think in one way to balance the monsters/unbeatable scores.  If we
> don't do nothing to balance, competition will be always boring for the rest
> of the world. Let's do barbecue, beer and have fun.
>
>
>
> Thanks again for sharing ideas and taking your time with this issue, but
> it's very important.
>
>
>
> Hope to listen all of you during the next contests and some DX calls.
>
>
>
> Have a nice weekend.
>
>
>
>
>
> 73's
>
>
>
> Fernando F. R. Cordoba - PY2LED
>
> Alto da Serra Contest Station
>
> PX2A - PX2B
>
> <mailto:py2led em fuertesind.com.br <py2led em fuertesind.com.br>>
> py2led em fuertesind.com.br
>
> <http://www.altodaserradx.com/> www.altodaserradx.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2015-11-05 2:21 GMT+03:00 Fernando PY2LED <py2led em fuertesind.com.br>:
>
> Hello Dear Contesters, good day!
>
> I was analyzing results from CQWW, CQWPX and in some categories we can see
> some nice records made by stations located in the Caribean Islands. Some of
> this islands counts like South America.
>
> It is extremelly difficult or impossible to beat their scores from South of
> Brazil, Argentina, Uruguai, Paraguai and other south countries due to the
> big distances to the main countries lime USA and some European countries.
> Also during the main contests, we have only one station (one multiplier) in
> some of this islands like Bonaire, Aruba etc and everybody will try the
> qso.
>
> I would like to understand if's there an explanation or criteria why they
> are located in South America for this contests. When we go to some
> Geography
> books, some autors gives reason why they don't include such islands at
> South
> America and they do like Caribean islands.
>
> Maybe this example applies to other parts of the world.  Why not to create
> an Islands Category or Central America or so?
>
> Would like to share and listen opinions about this issue.
>
> Many thanks and best 73's
>
>
> Fernando Cordoba | PY2LED | PX2B
>
> Sao Caetano do Sul | SP | Brasil
>
> GG66rj
>
> py2led em fuertesind.com.br
>
> www.altodaserradx.com.br
>
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>
>
>
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>
>
>
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>

-- 
Thomas, PY2ZXU/SM0CXU
Member of the PW2D Team
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