(Araucaria) Fwd: [CQ-Contest] Why some Caribbean Islands compete as South America at CQWW and other contests

Segunda Novembro 9 14:41:11 BRST 2015

Olá pessoal, boa tarde!

Ainda não satisfeito com as respostas obtidas no envio da primeira mensagem, preparei mais uma e enviei ontem a tarde com dados do ultimo cqwwssb, trazendo assim mais elementos para retratar o cenário e por enquanto tivemos apenas uma resposta.

De fato com o regulamento atual, maiores chances terão aqueles que estiverem no "Golden Circle" intitulado pelo amigo Ed, N1UR.

Como Atilano disse, esta proposta ja foi votada e foi derrotada. Não sei quando ocorreu pela ultima vez e quando podemos bater na tecla novamente.

O CQWW e o WPX sao únicos e não creio que a justificativa de apenas se divertir sabendo que jamais o vencerá nas categorias Multi e olhar para os demais contestes justifica a desvantagem.

O que acham? 

Sergio,  como você vê a questão, pois ja venceu varias vezes no SOSB em 10m e 15m, porem no Multi  Single, Multi-Two ou Multi-Multi não temos nada, correto? 

73's e boa semana a todos. 

> Fernando Cordoba | PY2LED | PX2B
> Sao Caetano do Sul | SP | Brasil
> GG66rj
> py2led em fuertesind.com.br
> www.altodaserradx.com.br

Início da mensagem encaminhada

> De: "Ed Sawyer" <sawyered em earthlink.net>
> Data: 9 de novembro de 2015 12:09:08 BRST
> Para: <cq-contest em contesting.com>
> Assunto: Re: [CQ-Contest] Why some Caribean Islands compete as South America
> Responder A: sawyered em earthlink.net
> 
> 
> 
> Fernando,
> 
> 
> 
> Nice analysis and yes, I think most of us would agree to your conclusions.
> All else being equal for operators and stations, the "golden circle" of
> Northern Africa and Extreme Northern South America will always win CQ WW and
> CQ WPX.  Even if the 3 points were changed to 2 points, propagation alone
> would likely have these same stations win.
> 
> 
> 
> But that is not the way to look at contesting.  Look for ALL contests where
> its fun.  Where does South America have an advantage?  ARRL DX and ARRL 10
> come to mind.  Look to win the continental contests from South America as
> well.
> 
> 
> 
> I have no chance of winning the world from W1 any more than you do from PY.
> But that doesn't prevent us from really enjoying contesting and trying to
> win the US when I can.
> 
> 
> 
> And don't think we can win the US for W1 in every contest.  Take a look at
> the top 10 in this weekend's SS contest in any category.  Look at NAQP as
> well.  Every location has its spot to shine.
> 
> 
> 
> This is the sport.  Its not to normalize every contest.  Its to know which
> contest you can win the world and which you can't.  Compete in all you can
> have fun in and accept what is continental winnable and what is not.  Try
> and win your country when you have a shot.
> 
> 
> 
> 73
> 
> 
> 
> Ed  N1UR
> 
> _______________________________________________
> CQ-Contest mailing list
> CQ-Contest em contesting.com
> http://lists.contesting.com/mailman/listinfo/cq-contest

> De: "PY2LED - Fernando" <py2led em fuertesind.com.br>
> Data: 7 de novembro de 2015 22:09:12 BRST
> Para: <CQ-Contest em contesting.com>
> Assunto: [CQ-Contest] Why some Caribbean Islands compete as South America at CQWW and other contests
> 
> Dear Colleagues, Good day!
> 
> 
> 
> I really appreciate all messages sent, each individual point of view,
> sharing opinions, suggestions all with education and fully respect. 
> 
> 
> 
> Join a contest like CQWW and CQWPX continues fine, exciting and I will
> always try to participate.  Recently we constructed a contest station near
> Sao Paulo and we knows very well what's the costs involved and the extras
> when we are in islands etc. We are always looking for a plaque, this is our
> target and probably from all of us.  What a pleasure when we look to the
> wall on the near future and see a lot of plaques from main contests
> worldwide. We are proud of that. 
> 
> 
> 
> But of course, in some categories, depending on your location and station
> setup, before contest starts, you already know to reach that plaque will not
> be possible. Here from Southeast part of Brazil, we know that is not
> possible at Multi-Multi, Multi-Two, Multi-Single...we always will loose due
> to our distance to the main ham population centers/countries like USA, EU,
> Japan in the Low Bands. Ok, we will have our country and continental
> competition what's fine. But how to become number one worldwide having the
> best antennas, radios, amps, towers, cables, automation, operators etc?
> 
> 
> 
> To turn what I'm saying more easy to check and understand, let's please have
> a look at the Claimed score from CQWWSSB at Multi Operators categories took
> from 3830scores.com (where we can compare up to 5 stations):
> 
> 
> 
> Multi-Two:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totals
> 
> 160
> 
> 80
> 
> 40
> 
> 20
> 
> 15
> 
> 10
> 
> 
> Call
> 
> Edition
> 
> Class
> 
> Power
> 
> Score
> 
> QSOs
> 
> Zones
> 
> Countries
> 
> Q
> 
> Z
> 
> Cnt
> 
> Q
> 
> Z
> 
> Cnt
> 
> Q
> 
> Z
> 
> Cnt
> 
> Q
> 
> Z
> 
> Cnt
> 
> Q
> 
> Z
> 
> Cnt
> 
> Q
> 
> Z
> 
> Cnt
> 
> 
> CN2R  
> 
> 2015-Oct 24  
> 
> M/2  
> 
> HP
> 
> 39,368,266
> 
> 14202
> 
> 187
> 
> 744
> 
> 250
> 
> 10
> 
> 49
> 
> 1513
> 
> 27
> 
> 107
> 
> 2100
> 
> 35
> 
> 122
> 
> 2142
> 
> 39
> 
> 156
> 
> 4162
> 
> 38
> 
> 154
> 
> 4035
> 
> 38
> 
> 156
> 
> 
> CN3A  
> 
> 2015-Oct 24  
> 
> M/2  
> 
> HP
> 
> 38,007,784
> 
> 14152
> 
> 176
> 
> 725
> 
> 62
> 
> 8
> 
> 45
> 
> 908
> 
> 21
> 
> 94
> 
> 2178
> 
> 34
> 
> 125
> 
> 3123
> 
> 38
> 
> 150
> 
> 3727
> 
> 38
> 
> 152
> 
> 4154
> 
> 37
> 
> 159
> 
> 
> PJ4Q  
> 
> 2015-Oct 24  
> 
> M/2  
> 
> HP
> 
> 24,770,768
> 
> 11247
> 
> 155
> 
> 593
> 
> 63
> 
> 11
> 
> 30
> 
> 504
> 
> 19
> 
> 77
> 
> 1561
> 
> 28
> 
> 110
> 
> 2341
> 
> 34
> 
> 131
> 
> 3323
> 
> 32
> 
> 121
> 
> 3455
> 
> 31
> 
> 124
> 
> 
> C4A  
> 
> 2015-Oct 24  
> 
> M/2  
> 
> HP
> 
> 21,237,810
> 
> 8903
> 
> 166
> 
> 668
> 
> 99
> 
> 8
> 
> 44
> 
> 493
> 
> 15
> 
> 72
> 
> 1414
> 
> 32
> 
> 114
> 
> 2087
> 
> 37
> 
> 147
> 
> 2235
> 
> 38
> 
> 136
> 
> 2574
> 
> 36
> 
> 155
> 
> 
> PX2A  
> 
> 2015-Oct 24  
> 
> M/2  
> 
> HP
> 
> 18,302,109
> 
> 8847
> 
> 157
> 
> 550
> 
> 0
> 
> 0
> 
> 0
> 
> 45
> 
> 14
> 
> 27
> 
> 425
> 
> 29
> 
> 92
> 
> 1939
> 
> 37
> 
> 144
> 
> 2777
> 
> 39
> 
> 141
> 
> 3661
> 
> 38
> 
> 146
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Multi-Multi:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totals
> 
> 160
> 
> 80
> 
> 40
> 
> 20
> 
> 15
> 
> 10
> 
> 
> Call
> 
> Edition
> 
> Class
> 
> Power
> 
> Score
> 
> QSOs
> 
> Zones
> 
> Countries
> 
> Q
> 
> Z
> 
> Cnt
> 
> Q
> 
> Z
> 
> Cnt
> 
> Q
> 
> Z
> 
> Cnt
> 
> Q
> 
> Z
> 
> Cnt
> 
> Q
> 
> Z
> 
> Cnt
> 
> Q
> 
> Z
> 
> Cnt
> 
> 
> CN2AA  
> 
> 2015-Oct 24  
> 
> M/M  
> 
> HP
> 
> 74,585,700
> 
> 23815
> 
> 207
> 
> 843
> 
> 894
> 
> 21
> 
> 85
> 
> 2324
> 
> 31
> 
> 117
> 
> 3597
> 
> 37
> 
> 142
> 
> 5814
> 
> 39
> 
> 164
> 
> 5656
> 
> 39
> 
> 169
> 
> 5530
> 
> 40
> 
> 166
> 
> 
> HK1NA  
> 
> 2015-Oct 24  
> 
> M/M  
> 
> HP
> 
> 33,727,337
> 
> 13867
> 
> 176
> 
> 657
> 
> 282
> 
> 16
> 
> 54
> 
> 629
> 
> 21
> 
> 80
> 
> 2029
> 
> 33
> 
> 121
> 
> 3489
> 
> 37
> 
> 143
> 
> 3347
> 
> 36
> 
> 135
> 
> 4030
> 
> 33
> 
> 124
> 
> 
> K3LR  
> 
> 2015-Oct 24  
> 
> M/M  
> 
> HP
> 
> 32,520,150
> 
> 12593
> 
> 195
> 
> 786
> 
> 468
> 
> 19
> 
> 61
> 
> 859
> 
> 27
> 
> 99
> 
> 2375
> 
> 36
> 
> 137
> 
> 3377
> 
> 39
> 
> 174
> 
> 3222
> 
> 40
> 
> 168
> 
> 2293
> 
> 34
> 
> 147
> 
> 
> PJ2T  
> 
> 2015-Oct 24  
> 
> M/M  
> 
> HP
> 
> 29,789,720
> 
> 13433
> 
> 165
> 
> 595
> 
> 183
> 
> 14
> 
> 27
> 
> 662
> 
> 70
> 
> 26
> 
> 1928
> 
> 30
> 
> 107
> 
> 2900
> 
> 37
> 
> 136
> 
> 3899
> 
> 34
> 
> 127
> 
> 3861
> 
> 30
> 
> 122
> 
> 
> ZW5B(@PY5EG)  
> 
> 2015-Oct 24  
> 
> M/M  
> 
> HP
> 
> 23,497,290
> 
> 9972
> 
> 177
> 
> 633
> 
> 4
> 
> 3
> 
> 3
> 
> 127
> 
> 19
> 
> 40
> 
> 914
> 
> 38
> 
> 125
> 
> 2225
> 
> 39
> 
> 152
> 
> 2826
> 
> 39
> 
> 158
> 
> 3876
> 
> 39
> 
> 155
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Multi-Single HP:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totals
> 
> 160
> 
> 80
> 
> 40
> 
> 20
> 
> 15
> 
> 10
> 
> 
> Call
> 
> Edition
> 
> Class
> 
> Power
> 
> Score
> 
> QSOs
> 
> Zones
> 
> Countries
> 
> Q
> 
> Z
> 
> Cnt
> 
> Q
> 
> Z
> 
> Cnt
> 
> Q
> 
> Z
> 
> Cnt
> 
> Q
> 
> Z
> 
> Cnt
> 
> Q
> 
> Z
> 
> Cnt
> 
> Q
> 
> Z
> 
> Cnt
> 
> 
> EF8R  
> 
> 2015-Oct 24  
> 
> M/S  
> 
> HP
> 
> 33,168,016
> 
> 11973
> 
> 183
> 
> 749
> 
> 88
> 
> 11
> 
> 54
> 
> 642
> 
> 21
> 
> 93
> 
> 1655
> 
> 37
> 
> 126
> 
> 2433
> 
> 38
> 
> 156
> 
> 2205
> 
> 38
> 
> 156
> 
> 4950
> 
> 38
> 
> 164
> 
> 
> CR3A  
> 
> 2015-Oct 24  
> 
> M/S  
> 
> HP
> 
> 28,153,224
> 
> 10468
> 
> 183
> 
> 719
> 
> 97
> 
> 13
> 
> 56
> 
> 658
> 
> 24
> 
> 96
> 
> 874
> 
> 34
> 
> 116
> 
> 2404
> 
> 38
> 
> 147
> 
> 2205
> 
> 37
> 
> 149
> 
> 4230
> 
> 37
> 
> 155
> 
> 
> P33W  
> 
> 2015-Oct 24  
> 
> M/S  
> 
> HP
> 
> 27,119,096
> 
> 10267
> 
> 182
> 
> 734
> 
> 188
> 
> 11
> 
> 60
> 
> 468
> 
> 20
> 
> 86
> 
> 1276
> 
> 36
> 
> 126
> 
> 2670
> 
> 38
> 
> 154
> 
> 2328
> 
> 40
> 
> 153
> 
> 3337
> 
> 37
> 
> 155
> 
> 
> PJ4X(@PJ4G)  
> 
> 2015-Oct 24  
> 
> M/S  
> 
> HP
> 
> 19,354,856
> 
> 8334
> 
> 168
> 
> 620
> 
> 12
> 
> 4
> 
> 11
> 
> 533
> 
> 25
> 
> 87
> 
> 941
> 
> 30
> 
> 112
> 
> 1697
> 
> 37
> 
> 135
> 
> 2169
> 
> 38
> 
> 139
> 
> 2982
> 
> 34
> 
> 136
> 
> 
> LT1F  
> 
> 2015-Oct 24  
> 
> M/S  
> 
> HP
> 
> 11,336,365
> 
> 5771
> 
> 158
> 
> 519
> 
> 4
> 
> 3
> 
> 4
> 
> 20
> 
> 11
> 
> 19
> 
> 532
> 
> 33
> 
> 102
> 
> 1164
> 
> 37
> 
> 125
> 
> 960
> 
> 38
> 
> 132
> 
> 3091
> 
> 36
> 
> 137
> 
> 
> 
> Multi-Single LP:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totals
> 
> 160
> 
> 80
> 
> 40
> 
> 20
> 
> 15
> 
> 10
> 
> 
> Call
> 
> Edition
> 
> Class
> 
> Power
> 
> Score
> 
> QSOs
> 
> Zones
> 
> Countries
> 
> Q
> 
> Z
> 
> Cnt
> 
> Q
> 
> Z
> 
> Cnt
> 
> Q
> 
> Z
> 
> Cnt
> 
> Q
> 
> Z
> 
> Cnt
> 
> Q
> 
> Z
> 
> Cnt
> 
> Q
> 
> Z
> 
> Cnt
> 
> 
> FY5KE  
> 
> 2015-Oct 24  
> 
> M/S  
> 
> LP
> 
> 14,427,004
> 
> 6817
> 
> 159
> 
> 563
> 
> 3
> 
> 3
> 
> 3
> 
> 200
> 
> 19
> 
> 58
> 
> 516
> 
> 29
> 
> 107
> 
> 1835
> 
> 36
> 
> 136
> 
> 1523
> 
> 36
> 
> 128
> 
> 2740
> 
> 36
> 
> 131
> 
> 
> VP9I(@VP9GE)  
> 
> 2015-Oct 24  
> 
> M/S  
> 
> LP
> 
> 7,018,557
> 
> 4771
> 
> 135
> 
> 476
> 
> 187
> 
> 7
> 
> 10
> 
> 504
> 
> 15
> 
> 61
> 
> 1119
> 
> 25
> 
> 93
> 
> 1192
> 
> 32
> 
> 114
> 
> 1230
> 
> 31
> 
> 105
> 
> 539
> 
> 25
> 
> 93
> 
> 
> EF7X(@EA7PP)  
> 
> 2015-Oct 24  
> 
> M/S  
> 
> LP
> 
> 5,684,625
> 
> 3582
> 
> 152
> 
> 623
> 
> 49
> 
> 9
> 
> 49
> 
> 87
> 
> 15
> 
> 75
> 
> 523
> 
> 23
> 
> 99
> 
> 900
> 
> 37
> 
> 131
> 
> 1012
> 
> 36
> 
> 131
> 
> 1011
> 
> 32
> 
> 136
> 
> 
> KP4BD  
> 
> 2015-Oct 24  
> 
> M/S  
> 
> LP
> 
> 5,138,128
> 
> 3856
> 
> 131
> 
> 437
> 
> 13
> 
> 3
> 
> 11
> 
> 116
> 
> 13
> 
> 49
> 
> 346
> 
> 21
> 
> 70
> 
> 784
> 
> 33
> 
> 115
> 
> 1655
> 
> 32
> 
> 102
> 
> 942
> 
> 29
> 
> 90
> 
> 
> PR1T(@PY1NB)  
> 
> 2015-Oct 24  
> 
> M/S  
> 
> LP
> 
> 4,129,990
> 
> 2787
> 
> 118
> 
> 396
> 
> 2
> 
> 2
> 
> 2
> 
> 3
> 
> 2
> 
> 3
> 
> 112
> 
> 25
> 
> 77
> 
> 550
> 
> 32
> 
> 108
> 
> 801
> 
> 30
> 
> 102
> 
> 1318
> 
> 27
> 
> 104
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> After to compare all this numbers, based in the Southeast of South America,
> I arrived on the following points:
> 
> -          Ocean Islands and countries at EU and USA boundaries dominated
> this categories;
> 
> 
> 
> -          Qsos/points from the South of South America, South of Africa and
> etc from lower latitudes on the higher bands like 10m and 15m sometimes
> arrives near qso/points amounts from the Winners BUT the qsos/points at
> lower bands starting sometimes on 20m but mainly on 40m, 80m and 160m is
> impossible to arrive closer. There is an abysm of difference.  Here we have
> a question of propagation mixed with distances, right? If yes, why not to
> suggest and/or propose new rules considering this issue?
> 
> 
> 
> -          Stations located in the boundaries of the main ham population
> centers/countries like Caribbean Islands, Mediterranean islands and
> countries located in the north of South America, North of Africa and other
> similar areas looking to the North of the world will also do a lot more on
> 40/80/160 meters AND ALSO will do a lot on the high bands, counting 3
> points/qso.  
> 
> 
> 
> -          If you are able to construct a super contest station in a rare
> and excellent DX location (inland or offshore) with excellent openings
> during the whole 24 hours to EU and NA (this should be nice), probably will
> be on the top. But and all other stations under different conditions? Will
> compete on this category the whole life without chances? 
> 
> 
> 
> -          So the conclusion here is that stations located far way from the
> main ham population centers/countries (outside this continents) at higher
> and lower latitudes normally do very small and limited amount of
> qsos/countries/zones in 40m, 80m and 160m  that is NOT compensated by far in
> 10m, 15m and 20m.
> 
> One possible solution could be to create a new category called "Islands" and
> separate it per continent.  We will have Islands Winners per Continents and
> also an World Islands Rank. One problem solved! 
> 
> 
> 
> The second situation, regarding this countries inland, located on the
> boundaries of EU or NA (North of South America/North of Africa/etc)...we
> should think in one way to balance the monsters/unbeatable scores.  If we
> don't do nothing to balance, competition will be always boring for the rest
> of the world. Let's do barbecue, beer and have fun.  
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks again for sharing ideas and taking your time with this issue, but
> it's very important. 
> 
> 
> 
> Hope to listen all of you during the next contests and some DX calls. 
> 
> 
> 
> Have a nice weekend.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 73's
> 
> 
> 
> Fernando F. R. Cordoba - PY2LED
> 
> Alto da Serra Contest Station
> 
> PX2A - PX2B
> 
> <mailto:py2led em fuertesind.com.br> py2led em fuertesind.com.br
> 
> <http://www.altodaserradx.com/> www.altodaserradx.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2015-11-05 2:21 GMT+03:00 Fernando PY2LED <py2led em fuertesind.com.br>:
> 
> Hello Dear Contesters, good day!
> 
> I was analyzing results from CQWW, CQWPX and in some categories we can see
> some nice records made by stations located in the Caribean Islands. Some of
> this islands counts like South America.
> 
> It is extremelly difficult or impossible to beat their scores from South of
> Brazil, Argentina, Uruguai, Paraguai and other south countries due to the
> big distances to the main countries lime USA and some European countries.
> Also during the main contests, we have only one station (one multiplier) in
> some of this islands like Bonaire, Aruba etc and everybody will try the qso.
> 
> I would like to understand if's there an explanation or criteria why they
> are located in South America for this contests. When we go to some Geography
> books, some autors gives reason why they don't include such islands at South
> America and they do like Caribean islands.
> 
> Maybe this example applies to other parts of the world.  Why not to create
> an Islands Category or Central America or so?
> 
> Would like to share and listen opinions about this issue.
> 
> Many thanks and best 73's
> 
> 
>> Fernando Cordoba | PY2LED | PX2B
>> Sao Caetano do Sul | SP | Brasil
>> GG66rj
>> py2led em fuertesind.com.br
>> www.altodaserradx.com.br
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